Blue Rodeo are recording their next album in a downtown Toronto studio they built in their recently purchased multi-purpose building.
Veteran engineer and all-around-sound guy, Nick Holmes, tells us a about recording with the boys and a little bit about the geek behind the scenes.
A
brief history of Nick?
I started doing College radio in Halifax at CKDU, hooked
up with this guy Peter Rowan to promote shows and DJ at the
Flamingo. Did some studio work for Film. That’s when I met Dave
Hillier, Rita McNeil’s guitar tech. He was listening
to my radio show late night one night and liked what I was playing
and called up, and things, yeah, blossomed from there. Dave was
a total prince, showed me around, got my foot in the door. Made
the move to Toronto probably February ‘92. Got a gig with James
Paul at the Cabana Room at the Spadina Hotel, which led
to my dealings with Treble Charger. Then I got involved with
Rob Sanzo and his studio Signal Noise, and also Darrell
Smith over at Chemical. Got my studio chops up. Started
touring full time with Treble Charger, Eric’s Trip and Pluto.
But I also continued to record and so then met Pete Hudson,
who ran and still runs Halamusic. Finally fell of the road
and Pete gave me a job. Thank you thank you Pete. I guess around
97, maybe 96, maybe 98, it was a blur, toured with a Shonan Knife,
you remember, a Japanese girls pop band, mostly back line, my friend Sean Richards was road managing and doing their sound. Guitar
tech drum monitor guy, all that stuff,
So after you fell off the road, how did a nice east coast boy
like you end up in BR’s urban bunker?
Ran in to Greg somewhere along the way through Dallas Good and Rick
White from Eric’s trip.
So you knew the good brothers as well? (The Sadies and Jon Langford
were in the studio recording an album, or two) Yeah, met Dallas
through Andrew Scott, just hanging out, he walked into the room,
and well, I just knew he was a kindred spirit.
And then?
It was the End of November, just as the studio was being pulled
together. Yeah, when I got the gig I wasn’t exactly sure what I
would be doing. I kind of figured I would be helping out on demos
or something, walked in and discovered that we were, uh, doing a
record. I thought id have a chance to learn how to play with all
the toys first.
Did you know the rest of the boys?
Most of them I had run into in some capacity. Glenn was certainly
familiar with me through the live stuff, James, Bob and Basil through
work at Halamusic. Baz I ran into while he was doing Hey Stella
I guess.
And Jim?
Jim I only knew as a guy who had breakfast at Mimi's...I mean, obviously
Mimi thought a lot of him. She and I seem to get a long pretty well
too. It’s all about breakfast, the most important meal of the day.
Tell that to the average engineer. I guess your pretty healthy then?
How else do you think you differ from the norm?
I am more of a morning guy than a lot of engineers.
I guess that’s good, as most of it seems to go on in the early
morning.
Yeah, it’s all in your definition of morning.
Do you find these guys stay up late?
Yeah, everyone is on their own clock, but definitely, the sessions
only really get kick into gear at 9 or 10 at night, and its not
unusual for us to go to sometime around one or two, sometimes later.
Especially if your name is Greg.
Does Greg come in by himself then?
Yeah, Greg and I have been known to come in and hack around during
the off time that we have on this record. As well, we’ve done a
couple of little things with Rick and Dallas. And we’re going to
do some more recording with the Sadies backing up John
Langford. He’s in Chicago now. He used to be in a band called
the Mekons and another band called the Waco Brothers.
And when you say The Sadies are backing him up?
Yeah, one thing the Sadies do, they aren’t just there own band,
but will get involved with other artists in a live environment or
in the studio. As a package deal, yeah. Yeah, Dallas has been good
(cough), at hooking me up with work over the years, I always love
recording with them.
What
else is Greg working on?
His own stuff or other artists? Other peoples stuff mostly, I don’t
think Greg is really in solo mode right now.
Is he getting into the vibe of being a producer perhaps?
I don’t know, well yeah, a little bit. He’s really interested in
the production process, so I mean we are both still figuring out
what one and other are into doing.
And I guess there’s and added incentive for him to delve into the
gear here, with it being their space and all.
Yeah, it’s their toys, and I am really into getting them comfortable
running the gear as well. There’s enough going on in this place
in terms of just putting it together still. Even now, while we are
making a record, any time I can let them drive or move stuff around,
or do part of the recording, is another couple of seconds that I
can be patching in more gear or getting stuff up to spec, or just
preparing for the next thing they are going to be recording.
And how are the band’s chops in the studio? Both Greg and
Jim are really pretty confident with the gear now, they don’t do
everything, but they can definitely drive the board.
When you say drive?
Run the board, the remote for the two-inch deck.
That sounds empowering.
Its one of those things where, you know, the more that every does
it, the more confident they get, and the more invisible it is in
the recording process. All of a sudden its not you having to worry
about a guy doing something for you, he will do it. He already knows
that’s going to be required for the take to go down well.
Working title for the new album?
Havn’t a clue. At this moment I think its called number 11.
Sounds like a fancy perfume; Album Number 11. Have you ever recorded
with the band before?
No, I don’t think so, no, not with the band.
I guess it would be hard for you to remember, what with all the
individual members you’ve already tweaked for.
Yeah, but no, I haven’t. The first time I really got to know Jim
was during the recording of these songs.
Have you compared notes with anyone who has worn your headphones
before?
Not sure, though I talked with Doug McClemment, the guy who
did Five Days In July, that’s the location recording they at did
out at Greg’s farm. Doug is a very well known guy in the local music
scene. He’s been doing studio stuff for a very long time. I’ve been
running in to him off and on for a number of years, especially through
his location recordings.
Wasn’t that the fella with the Comfort Sound truck back in the
day?
Yup, now he calls it Live Wire. He’s also actually an old pal of
Dave Hillier’s. His number is one of the ones that Dave gave me
when I came up to Toronto. But by the time I got a chance to call
Doug I was already off on the road doing other stuff.
Did he talk to you about recording with the band?
Not per say, but it was nice to hear his take on things. The last
time I was around Doug while he was talking about that, was before
I had hooked up with Blue Rodeo. So I hadn’t really thought of it
as future gig information or anything, just talked about the overall
process and the vibe.
So when you came in November, were they just starting to record
album number 11?
No, I think they’d started in the summer. You see, sessions sometimes
don’t have very clear starts and stops. I kind of get the feeling
there was a bit of blur in between what they were doing on the greatest
hits and the demos that they were doing for their next record. On
greatest hits they worked with someone they had thought about working
with on this album as well, but she had some kind of family or personal
crisis, not related to the work, that meant she wasn’t going to
be able to do it for a while.
So they went back in earnest when?
The stuff that I am under impression that we are using for the album,
all started when I got here at the middle or end of November.
These guys can call their own shots at this point, but what are
the basic phases in any the recording process?
Everybody is different, but yeah, there is a basic process. The
first thing you have to do, obviously, is start writing songs. Then
most people, sometimes late in the song writing process, wind up
demo-ing the songs. Which is when you usually start to integrate
the other members of the band into the songwriter’s vision. That’s
a really important part of the process. That’s when the parts come
together and when the arrangement really starts to take form. And
it sort of feeds back in to the song writing as well. So as things
start to work out, different songs come to the forefront, or half
completed songs become more complete. Sometimes it even inspires
the writer to write more stuff, because it gives them an added sense
of direction, or a sense of how the rest of the album is coming
together.
Did they do that here?
They did that stuff at Greg’s place. So that’s all before I came
on the scene. After the demo process, you start to think about the
recording of the record, that’s when this building came on the scene.
They got the gear together and they got the room, and they put together
an environment to make a record in.
Did they have any help?
Lots. A guy name Ken Freissen who is involved in the Bathhouse out in Kingston, that’s the Tragically Hip’s studio, he’s
the guy responsible for putting that studio together, and for the
basic package of this place. He showed me what was going on with
the gear, showed me where the manuals were. Jack at Century Contracting
did all the renovations.
This place is fully loaded with vintage vibe, where did they
get it all?
The gear was pretty much all theirs. In addition to the basic stuff
we have, there are some holes, and we are filling them as time goes
on. I am definitely pitching in my two cents on that stuff.
Your favourite gear?
Well, I love the board. A Neve. It’s a similar vintage to a lot
of the gear I’m into. It seems a lot of stuff I gravitate to was
built around the time I was born. Not only that. Yeah, roughly the
same place. Oxford was big town in the recording world at the time
and a lot of folks who built gear of that vintage seem to be of
the same environment. Like Soundcraft had their factory very close
to there as well.
I hear you might also be partial to a couple of the mikes here
too.
Yup, I love the ribbon mikes.
Are those the old style ones?
They are the RCAs, a very classic design. And the one I like the
best right now, we got from Colin Cripps. Who has also assisted
us in lending the studio a bunch of gear.
So what’s your role in the musical process? And would you say
part of your job is to be invisible?
Sort of, it’s more that you want to be attentive enough to what
is going on that people don’t have to ask you to do stuff. Definitely
the live experience comes into that, because most of doing live
sound is paying attention. And trying to figure out what’s going
on onstage, and why it’s going horribly wrong. And also, you’re
far away, so you have to do it by observation, you can’t do it by
being up there and looking at it. Sometimes you’re 60 feet away
and if you can’t figure it out then… So, a lot of my gigs have been
about trying to communicate without necessarily having to verbalize
it.
What comes next in the recording?
Tracking, and maybe hiring a producer at that point, and then after
that, it depends on the band. Some bands record the bed tracks for
all their songs at once. A good example of that is Treble Charger,
who are doing their thing right now. They recorded all their bed
tracks in a couple of weeks, and then they will add the vocals,
guitars and over-dubs afterwards. For the most part, what we’ve
been doing is the overdubs for each song shortly after starting
the beds. While your still inspired by starting the song. We’ll
do a lot of the work on the same day, maybe a couple of days later.
After that, comes mixing and editing. Which we haven’t done here
yet, but seems to part of the plan, that we are going to basically
carry through most of the process all in the same spot.
Do things change in the studio dynamics once the tracks are down
and all the players go home?
Mixing and editing, is usually when non-musicians get involved in
the whole process. When Band managers, or record companies, or music
publishers, those kinds of people, wind up getting to impose a little
bit of their vision. Or at least then get see how their vision matches
up.
Would they actually have a say?
Not usually. But they definitely, well, they try and sit back as
much as they can, but if they have an opinion, that’s usually the
time that they’ll raise it.
After listening to the bed tracks?
After rough mixes or sitting in on the mixing process. But it’s
also often the point where an album really comes in to focus. It’s
the moment when it stops being your own personal thing. Now with
these guys, I don’t know how much of an influence those other folks
have, and usually as a band acquires a reputation and develops their
own aesthetic, they are able to take what those people suggest in
their own spirit. A lot of time people will then stop making suggestions
that obviously clash with what a band wants to do. They’ll work
towards and end up working with people who are going to reinforce
their vision as well.
Feedback is good.
It’s like having people on quality control, or having an audience
to play stuff off. The audience is often the missing link in the
recording process. But you want to have feedback that you can use.
Do you give good feedback?
Sometimes that’s my role too. Is to be the audience. Sometimes
I’m the guy in the room who’s nodding his head while they’re playing
a track. You know, I mean for all that you try to be invisible,
there is that element to it as well, and sometimes your role is
to be the recipient of this music.
Do you feel comfortable saying something to an artist?
I mean, I’m not going to try and change the songs or anything, but
you usually know when something is not working. And if its not working
its important to be able to say that.
How
open is the band to outside input?
They’re really good about hearing it. They’ve really encouraged
me to say what’s on my mind.
Well, they’ve made their reputation touring live, and are clearly
interested in what their audiences have to say about the music they
write. The criticism seems well balanced.
Its cool for me cause its not like my feedback is always negative,
like its not working. Often times I get to be there when something
really cool is happening. And go, wow, that was it, please, don’t
mess with this.
Do the members of the band work together as well in the studio as
they do on stage?
They are very good about encouraging each other, and being one and
others audience. And I think that’s probably one of the reasons
why they are so successful as a live band. Is because they actually
seem to care about what each are doing, and they inspire one and
other. So having a particularly well-received bed track will make
the rest of the record that much more musical. Or having someone
like Glenn or basil say something encouraging about another one’s
performance, makes them feel like they’re on the right track as
well.
 Once
the tracking, mixing and editing is done, what then?
Then comes mastering. Mastering is a black art.
I know it can be expensive and seems to have to be scheduled
according to someone else’s whims. Is it difficult, and is it a
very crucial part?
Its very crucial, and the mastering guy can really make or break
a record. It’s the part of an album a lot of recording engineers
try to delegate to someone else. That’s because it requires yet
another set of ears and another perspective. And serious objectivity,
the kind of objectivity you only get if your working in that form
almost all the time.
Instead of having just spent months in a darkened room with them.
So what phase are we in now?
We are still in the tracking phase; we’ll start mixing probably
in a month, maybe two months. And we are still starting songs as
well.
Is stuff being written right now?
Its pretty much all written, being elaborated on, and things have
been tweaked a bit since we started doing tracking as well. But
usually our weeks involve starting a couple of songs on Monday and
Tuesday, and getting them close to finished by Friday. Except mixing.
How different are the roles of engineer, to producer, to band
as producer?
In the case of this record, the band is the producer. It’s definitely
them fulfilling their own vision. But part of what a producer can
do is deal with the logistics of a recording as well, things like
booking the studio time, hiring people. In a musical sense they
can have a lot more creative control, by doing the scheduling and
setting the pace, giving the band a framework to make their record
in. some parameters.
When I think of producer I think of Daniel Lanois and people who
have put their creative stamp on the music. Do you know if they
have they shared the creative production with others in the past?
I am not really familiar with who they have worked with. I try to
stay out of it, keep fresh. I think that what I am bringing to this
is a different set of ears, a slightly different perspective, and
a real willingness to make them as much a part of the technical
process as possible. Sometimes when your are the engineer, you’d
don’t want to deal with the band, you’d rather deal with the producer,
because they will speak your language and they’ll tell you what
to do. And you can concentrate on the details without worrying too
much about the big picture. With this record I sort of have to keep
the big picture in mind a little bit more, it’s definitely a wider
definition of engineering rather than a narrower one. I mean, its
not just the knob turning, I am also trying to figure out where
to plug stuff in.
This place is being built as we speak, people installing things
and new changes to the space daily. This must be an enormous learning
curve for you as well as the band.
In that sense its great that the band is so confident in what they
are doing, and that they already have their own vision. Because
really, I couldn’t be producing them, not only is it not in my league,
but also I haven’t figured out all the gear yet.
Forgive me, but the fans would like to know, who’s songs would
you say you have been working on the most so far?
It depends; often Jim’s songs come quicker, so we might start with
his. But its pretty close to just alternating Jim and Greg’s songs
so each of them has a chance to relax and be a musician as opposed
to being the writer of the song. Jims songs are often quicker I
think because he has a very clear sense of where the song is going.
It’s much more about trying to fulfil a vision that is already there
and really clear to him. With Greg, it’s often about finding out
how things work with the song. Sometimes with Greg's songs, I’m
not so concerned about getting something to sound in a certain way,
but trying to give them an idea about what they could do with it.
Give them options for how to make stuff sound different, let the
process support the song.
Well that sounds like quite a challenge everyday, good thing you
eat breakfast.
You know it. You have to be pretty limber, the ideas you learn the
most from are the ones that don’t succeed. So you have to be able
to pursue and idea far enough to see whether or not it’s working
and then take that and turn it into something that does.
And so, the much talked of track Bullet Proof, have you finished
recording that yet?
Nope, still underway with that one. A lot of it is going to come
down to a vocal performance with Jim at this point. And how horns
and strings would work with it. It’s a strong one. Its always nice
to see a band in the process of creating something that you think
is really going to be able to reach out and grab some folks.
Are
you, or were you already a fan?
I was familiar, and definitely had a lot of respect for their live
shows, they were obviously really, really happening. But I have
to admit, the kind of music I like to listen to is often a lot older,
I’m really rooted in sixties and seventies stuff, especially soul
and reggae. Though I wasn’t actively into that genre of music, I
could see the commonality in what they are doing. It all works out.
I am part of it now.
And once they’ve got you they don’t give you up. I think that’s
an important thing to note about Blue Rodeo in general; the all-pervasive
community vibe. Once you start working with them, you become part
of this musical family that no matter what the split, everybody
is still related at the end of the day. They all show up at the
reunion.
That’s for sure. There has always been the sort of larger Blue Rodeo
family that I’ve been running into forever, so it seemed like a
logical progression.
And so, favourite BR album?
I like this one. Album number 11.
You would say that. But as an engineer, which previous album
appeals the most.
I really love Doug’s work on Five Days. Talented guy at the
peak of his form, with a wack of good stuff in a great environment,
with talented musicians. I mean, it’s really hard to go wrong. Oh
yeah, and a great bunch of songs, it just doesn’t get better.
If you had to tell a tale out of class, what's been your favourite
moment so far in the studio making this album?
I think my favourite moment was the first moment we started recording
Palace Of Gold on the first day. When I sat down and looked around
and realized what was actually going on. I hit play and record and
they started playing the song. That was pretty great.
Palace of Gold?
Its one of Gregs.
And can you describe a tense moment yet?
Not really. Probably the tensest moment always happens just before
supper. When everybody' s hungry. Its not really, like, a specific
thing. But you can always tell when its time for a supper break.
--cvm
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